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Time well spent with ...
Vinny Brown, PD of WBLS-FM (107.5) in New York City.
First, a little bit of history...
Vinny Brown has programmed outside of New York, but no one can deny he has had an impressive impact on the Big Apple more
than any place else. Brown programmed at WRKS-FM (Kiss-FM 98.7) in the late '80s, early '90s. He left Emmis in the mid-'90s
to form his own radio consulting firm. Brown was instrumental in the strategy for Emmis to program WQHT-FM (Hot 97) to urban
youth and Kiss toward urban AC with the intent of squeezing WBLS out of its morning slot. He also brought in high profile
R&B names such as Ashford & Simpson, Roberta Flack, Isaac Hayes and Roger Troutman to brand Kiss. But it seems Brown
has found a home at Inner City-owned WBLS. And now with Steve Harvey in place to complement Wendy Williams, Mark Jordan, Champagne
and the incomparable legendary Vaughn Harper, he may have all his ducks in a row to knock on the door for the No. 1 spot in
New York. Brown took some time out of his incredibly busy schedule to talk about radio, music and just what it takes to balance
undoubtedly two of the hottest personalities in the country. (Darrell McNeill contributed to this piece.)
Star - This year alone WBLS has gone through some changes. Do you think you have everything in place now?
VB - We should always strive to upgrade and be better than we are. You have to modify to increase performance. I'm definitely
excited with what we have now.
Star - What's it like having Steve Harvey in the building?
VB - It's a bunch of excitement. Never a dull moment. He brings energy and passion and a whole lot of excitement. We had
toyed with the idea of him working here two to three years ago, so for it to come to life, it's a joy.
Star - Were you in on those negotiations with Steve and Inner City and Clear Channel?
VB - The evolution began a couple of years ago when he broadcast from my production room. He came into my office and talked
to me about working here and I told him I would keep it in mind. So over this last summer we realized we needed a relief morning
person and I thought of him and gave him a call. I noticed his commitment at the Beat was unraveling, so. we asked him if
he'd like to spend a week in New York and he said "Yea." He brought his A game and we had so much fun, so I went
in to fight for him. At first my GM said we couldn't afford him, but we decided we had to find a way to make it work. We didn't
want him syndicated coming from Dallas or L.A. We presented the idea for him to be based here ... the idea took some time
to work out. It was a three legged stool - Premiere, WBLS and Steve. He wanted to do New York. He wants to do it to prove
something to himself. So the need and desire for us to have him complemented the need and desire he had to be here. It was
good for Premiere to replace Tom Joyner, so it was a win, win, win.
Star - What about all the rumors that Steve can be difficult?
VB - He said he has respected me and will continue to. We have the same kind of vision, so we were not at odds from the
beginning. He listens, he has his own opinion, but he takes direction very well. He has embraced it. Is he difficult? I think
people have misconstrued it... he has his own ideas of what he wants to do and how and where he wants to be in the future.
I am wise enough not to ask a talent like Steve Harvey to do things he doesn't want to do. I'm not gonna stick some liners
in front of him and tell him to just do it. When you explain things to him and he understands why we do things when we do,
it works out. You are hiring him because of what he brings to the table, not because of his radio experience. There's a place
to execute the format, but guys like this need some leeway.
Star - Minimum of two major broadcasting stars in the building with Wendy Williams and Steve Harvey. Does that present
any particular negatives or positives?
VB - I gotta tell you... we joke a lot of times... my GM says I am the luckiest programmer in America because I have Steve
in the morning and Wendy in the afternoon. It's also a
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| Rick Brown, Keith Sweat and Vinny Brown |
challenge. They are two high profile talents with syndicated shows... there are headaches, but I'm also very blessed. Steve
is a big fan of Wendy's and she listens to him in the morning. There is a lot of energy in here. Then we have Vaughn Harper
in the evenings, so I have quite a line-up. Mark Jordan does middays and Champagne does over nights, and she's been here for
more than 17 years. The talent I have in this building is incredible.
Star - So after it's all said and done with your current line-up, what would you say is your target demo?
TB - It's still 25-54. We target adults only. Our profile is an African-American female about 40 years old. We are not
a traditional AC... we're not sleepy. We do play "Gold Digger" and some of the more lively R&B.
Star - So what does a typical hour sound like on WBLS?
TB - Core artists include Fantasia, Alicia Keys, Jill Scott, Jaheim, Kem and John Legend. That's today's R&B side.
Then there's the classic soul part... Luther, Keith Sweat, Steve Wonder, Teddy Pendergrass, Chaka Khan, Marvin Gaye. There's
gold based and we do a healthy amount of current R&B. If there's an exemplary Gospel track, we'll play it. As long as
it's not offensive to our core audience, we're likely to play it.
Star - Let's talk about New York. Obviously, this is the top market in the country, but what's special about programming
here? And what are some of the challenges to programming here?
VB - I'm a native. This is my 15th year programming here. It's the world's largest stage. This is the market that is emulated
by the rest of the country. We are what is looked at for trend setting. The challenge is the size of the market... we have
the biggest cume, the largest audience of any other market. The challenge is effectively competing because you have to market
to so many different types of people. There are so many fragmentations of the format in this market. There are a lot of other
stations competing for the same audience. And there are so many distractions here, such as Broadway, the arts, TV and so much
more.
Star - Any comment on the payola situation? Has it had any affect on how you do business with the labels?
VB - When we do promotions now, there is a special clause in the proposal that what we are doing has no impact on what
we play. I don't normally do promotions unless I am already supporting the record anyway.
Star - So what kind of promotions have you implemented to complement the music?
VB - Right now our attention is on morning drive with Steve. We have a $107,000 cash guarantee. We are giving away $1,000
every time you hear a certain Steve Harvey drop during different day parts.
Star - What kind of management style does it take to gain the confidence and cooperation of people such as Wendy, Steve
and some of the others, who have been there, done that?
VB - I think it is... it begins with relationships. I have been working with Wendy since 1990... we started together at
Kiss. We have a certain respect for each other. Because I have been not so restrictive with her, she has become the talent
that she is. She has mutual respect for me... she will listen to me. We kept in touch when she was in Philly. When the opportunity
presented itself for her to come here, we made it happen. It was because of our relationship that she even considered coming
back. It's the same with Steve. We had a relationship from before and a mutual respect. We bought into each other's vision.
So the management style is one of mutual respect. You do have to lead by example. My
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| Jerry SPringer with Vinny Brown |
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..... Is he difficult? I think people have misconstrued it... he has his own ideas of what he wants to do and how and where
he wants to be in the future. I am wise enough not to ask a talent like Steve Harvey to do things he doesn't want to do. I'm
not gonna stick some liners in front of him and tell him to just do it .....
--- Vinny Brown
talent respects me because I have been a personality, too, and they know I can go in there and do it. I can go in there
on the mic and show them how to do it. As far as execution, they know what I am talking about.
Star - What's your take on research? Are you a go out in the field kinda guy, or do you rely heavily on research?
VB - It's a combination of both. The streets will tell you. I know bringing Steve back was good because the streets told
me - research will reinforce what you probably already know. It's art and science. You have to get the buzz off the street
and then the research will pick it up later. It's all in how it's asked and how it's interpreted. Owners don't want to hear
that, stockholders don't want to hear it's from the streets... they want arguments backed up with valid research. You have
to be agile enough and not have so much pride, too, that the research may show you where an adjustment needs to be made.
Star - Vinny, you have been around for awhile. The industry has changed so much, but is it still fun?
VB - It-s still fun. It can't be anything but fun around here with characters like Steve and
Wendy. It's not only exciting, it's unpredictable.
Star - What's one of your fondest memories as a programmer?
VB - As an air talent it was interviewing the Jacksons. As a PD, it was my first No. 1 book in New York. Charles Warfield
came into my office and looked at me with a somber face. Then he announced "We're No. 1," and broke out into a big
smile. That was fantastic. It was a Spring book, so that made it even more rewarding.
Star - What's been key to your longevity in this crazy industry?
VB - It's like being a ballplayer. I have been able to make more correct decisions than wrong. I have been fortunate enough
to be able to think things through, analyze them enough to make mostly right calls. As long as your right decisions outweigh
your wrong decisions, you can play the game. I also understand management and understand the other things that come with a
radio station. I have been lucky enough to work under management that understands one down book is not the end of the world,
and those same people understand how important it is to give me the necessary resources to achieve goals. I also credit a
great staff and the ownership with my success, our success.
Star - Comments on the state of the music industry today? Has the music gotten better?
VB - Most recently, there seems to be a positive swing when you see the Fantasias, the Alice Keys, the John Legends make
it with the real music and more intelligent lyrics. I give those credit who put together music that appeals to consumers,
but... in my format and what I am trying to do, it's encouraging to see the modern day Stevie Wonders, modern day Roberta
Flacks... that they appreciate the music and putting the soul and the heart back in it. The pendulum is swinging back to that
flavor where R&B is more romantic. The lyric writing and composition is getting better, as well as instrumentation and
production.
Star - So what's in your CD player right now?
VB - A CD of old school. Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstong together. Sly Stone. I'm all over the place. I escape to my
CD player from the radio station. I also "audition" the new albums that come to me.
Go to www.wbls.com to check out the station.
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